tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post5653886377136957706..comments2024-02-27T19:40:09.504-07:00Comments on Section 244: Thor: 40 years of favourite momentsMichael Hoskinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11302540308587868138noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-2360516336852335812022-07-31T11:51:43.180-06:002022-07-31T11:51:43.180-06:00Ha. I prefer the comics that have Jane or that are...Ha. I prefer the comics that have Jane or that are rip-offs of mythology but the early ones are clearly the best. Thor fell into irrelevance, along with Iron Man and Captain America some time in the early to mid-70s.<br /><br />I pick for the best ever Thor story arc is the one involving Beta Ray Bill. That was a huge deal when it came out in 1984, I think and the artwork was spectacular.Jane Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13860550544008642749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-34723580791368314682012-04-24T15:41:21.791-06:002012-04-24T15:41:21.791-06:00Pordenone, thank you for encouraging me to think a...Pordenone, thank you for encouraging me to think about this matter, I'm surprised to realize there is a lot to discuss about "To Become an Immortal."<br /><br />I begin to believe Stan Lee had written himself into a corner when Thor told Jane his secret identity, but that Stan's solution wasn't ideal. Stan knew he couldn't sustain Thor with Jane knowing his secret identity, so he phased Jane out of the series, similar to how he phased out Liz Allan from Spider-Man, leaving just Betty Brant as Peter's love interest. The difference is, Liz was quickly replaced by Gwen Stacy & Mary Jane Watson so the series never lacked for want of romantic interests; Jane left just as Sif was introduced, bungling the opportunity for Thor to have two strong contenders for his affections at once.<br /><br />It would have been interesting if "To Become an Immortal" had concluded with Odin removing only Jane's memories of being a goddess and Thor's secret identity. The series would have thus maintained Jane's presence, Sif would have been a new complication in the Thor-Jane dynamic and Donald Blake would have been more important to the series.<br /><br />You suggest Thor with Sif is "as boring as Superman." Ah, but Superman was always denied a real relationship with Lois Lane in the 60s... by your standards, he'd be even more boring than Superman.<br /><br />Jane was immensely useful for fostering troubles for Thor - primarmily in how she came between he and his father and in how Loki could manipulate Thor through his feelings for Jane. In all of this, Jane was unaware of how Thor's feelings for her had reprecussions on a cosmic scale! You wonder what the tragedy with Sif was... I don't know if a tragic relationship is necessary (Reed & Sue Richards got by even in the Silver Age), but Sif eventually became set against Thor in matters of state, where she nearly always sided with Odin against Thor (although it almost never meant Sif and Thor were enemies). Later, Sif would express frustration with Thor's love for Earth and its humans which she felt was a betrayal of Asgard and his own people. This at least gave Thor & Sif something to argue about, although it ran the risk of making Sif seem small and unworthy of Thor's affections; Sif embodies Thor's fractured relationship with Asgard, but because we don't have a good sense of Asgard and why we might want to take their side in an Earth vs. Asgard debate (being, of course, Earth people), perhaps this is why Thor/Sif were never the most interesting Marvel couple?Michael Hoskinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11302540308587868138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-40210812550549616202012-04-20T17:33:59.527-06:002012-04-20T17:33:59.527-06:00Typo. I was trying to say: Jane is going to be mor...Typo. I was trying to say: Jane is going to be more interesting THAN Sif.Pordenonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16810290410080668476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-70568458584727665142012-04-20T17:29:36.969-06:002012-04-20T17:29:36.969-06:00I think we can all agree that the Jane Foster stor...I think we can all agree that the Jane Foster story thread was bungled, or at least they lost the opportunity of explaining her decision-letting Jane have 'her moment.'<br /><br />Here the problem: In the original Lee/Kirby stories, Thor's 'desire-line' was clear: His desire for Jane. That is, Thor could do almost anything, but what he wanted most, he couldn't have. So he spends the first few years of the run trying to get this, and failing. As a reader, you could feel in a way superior to Thor, he was a god, but couldn't get what he really wanted. This was the secret to Marvel's early success: Spider-Man could save the city, but he kept messing up terribly in the romance department. Peter Parker couldn't get what he really wanted, respect. So now you drop Jane for Sif. What happens to Thor's 'desire-line'? It's gone. He can have Sif and save the universe too. His tragic hero status is gone. Now he's just as boring as Superman or a lot of other superheroes. In hindsight (and let's be fair, who knew nerds like us would be talking about this thirty years later), they could have done far more interesting things with the Foster connection. She by nature is going to be more interesting in Sif in the long run, because she keeps Thor human. In a way, she fulfills the 'companion' function for Dr. Who, but there would have been a way to have kept her in the story, like what Joss Whedon did for Buffy and Angel. For example, Thor and Jane get together and cause something like the end of the world. So now the tragic hero gets taken to a different level. Yes, Thor sort of missed the train on the Sif angle and it never really recovered. What was the tragic element with Sif? That Thor was too busy to spend time with her?Pordenonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16810290410080668476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-38637938176015766822011-10-17T16:22:41.022-06:002011-10-17T16:22:41.022-06:00In an ideal world, we'd have the strong Jane F...In an ideal world, we'd have the strong Jane Foster as depicted by Roger Langridge in Thor: the Mighty Avenger existing in the regular Marvel Universe. So far as our imperfect world goes, I agree that the slighting of Jane wound up doing long-term damage to the series, since without Jane Thor had no human supporting cast and thus less reason to fight for Earth. In spite of many efforts since then to give Thor an Earthly cast, each successive writer has dumped what his predecessor established, with only Jane being retained because she was there at the start.<br /><br />I don't think Jane cowering before the Lurking Unknown was a strong moment for her, but I suppose there is something to be said for her ability to identify her own weakness. Mind you, Odin set her up like a piece in a Rube Goldberg machine. Ideally, Jane would have demonstrated that strength earlier in the series and justified herself as Thor's romantic interest. In fact, it seemed like that was where she was headed immediately prior to her removal when she began teaching the New Men for the High Evolutionary; she coped with the weirdness of Mount Wundagore much better than she did that of Asgard.Michael Hoskinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11302540308587868138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-85005942391080405712011-10-17T14:43:54.555-06:002011-10-17T14:43:54.555-06:00I don't think Sif has ever held her own in per...I don't think Sif has ever held her own in personality with Thor. I think her constant deference to him as 'My Lord' shows the skewed dynamic. <br /><br />It seemed that Stan wanted a bigger fantasy element so perhaps showing Jane Asgard would have been better.<br /><br />This story however does not slight Jane at all. If anything it empowers her. She stood up to Odin (and she has since) in a way no other character has. She doesn't stand for it. That was always Jane's best trait. <br /><br />There is a wonderful What If? about this story that makes me wish it had all turned out differently more. I think it was #25 where Thor and Odin go to war. Balder and Sif fight for Odin while the Warriors Three and Vizier side with Thor and Jane. It plays with the 'set up' idea more. <br /><br />All in all, I've always preferred Jane to Sif. It was the better story. The arrogant god falling for the mortal and having to prove to his father she is as good as the Gods. Marvel tend to forget that Thor was not just God of Thunder, he was god of healing, fertility and champion of the people. As Jane's champion, as Dr Blake and as an avenger he is more rounded as the character.<br /><br />Sif, never had that clear direction which is probably why they break up and get back together more often than a couple on 90210. When you put an arrogant Thor with an arrogant Sif he gets worse.<br /><br />Reading Thor these days is like reading Thor pre-banishment.<br />He needs Jane back properly (lets face it Marvel have kicked her around and enjoyed destroying her for decades now) to give him the old fashioned Jane Foster attitude where his arrogance just won't fly.Nikkihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07232828708855932756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-60568310440477513092011-06-14T14:41:51.502-06:002011-06-14T14:41:51.502-06:00Oh, Odin admits it was all a set-up by the conclus...Oh, Odin admits it was all a set-up by the conclusion, but I feel it was a necessary step for Thor and Jane; Thor needed a romantic partner who could hold her own and that was what Sif brought to the table. Thor had assimilated so well into humanity that I feel he was better served by expressing the wonders of Earth to Sif (especially in "I, Whom the Gods Destroy") than he would have been introducing Asgard to Jane.Michael Hoskinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11302540308587868138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5146591810616867072.post-75027076038095283772011-06-12T10:27:11.387-06:002011-06-12T10:27:11.387-06:00Don't you think that the whole Jane thing reek...Don't you think that the whole Jane thing reeked of a set up? Odin knew she would fail the task and so prove herself 'unworthy'. He gave her the power of flight against the monster, that is no use at all. Sif showing up just adds to the whole stink of the story. I can't get on board with either Odin or Sif after that issue. Its horrific.Nikkihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07232828708855932756noreply@blogger.com