Stan Lee: "It's complicated."

As I indicated when I wrote about Stan Lee's death, there are certain criticisms I have about him, but it didn't seem right to bring them up when his life really does deserve to be celebrated.

Stan Lee's most obvious failing was his knack for putting his name on all kinds of terrible products. As more and more time elapsed, he would put his name on an increasingly-large market of subpar products, not only in comics but in film, television and cologne.

But the aspect of Stan Lee's character which I found problematic was his approach to credits. As I noted before, he did a great thing by standardizing creator credits at Marvel Comics - he frequently would talk up the artists who collaborated with him. Virtually all of his collaborators found him a very fine guy.

The way in Stan wrote comic books was to provide artists with a rough idea of what the plot could be, then he would dialogue the pages as they came in. It became called the "Marvel Method" but it was primarily a means to an end - Stan didn't have the time to type up full plots/scripts. Fortunately, artists like Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko & Don Heck didn't require any hand-holding, they could throw together the pages on their own. Kirby in particular would offer suggestions for dialogue and we know from existing samples that Stan would often take Kirby's suggestions.

The problems began as Marvel Comics became famous and the media started approaching Stan. Stan eagerly adopted the role of spokesman for comics, but because journalists didn't understand much about how comics were made, they tended to assume Stan was the person most responsible for the comics - heck, they'd even assume he drew the comics unless expressly told otherwise. What Stan was doing was a collaboration and the media didn't quite get it - and they definitely didn't get how heavily skewed the collaboration was towards the artists' strength.

The problem deepened as Stan would, as he often said, "take any credit that wasn't nailed down." He would shrug off his credit-stealing by blaming his faulty memory, but there was a definite change in how he spoke about his creations over time; in the 1960s, he readily admitted Dr. Strange was 100% Steve Ditko and the Silver Surfer was 100% Jack Kirby - but more and more, he would refer to himself as "the" creator of the Marvel Comics super heroes. It's understandable why he thought this, because the concepts frequently originated in his mind, then he would ask an artist to develop the idea. But those characters did not really exist until the artists visualized Stan's idea and plotted out their adventures.

Detractors of Jack KIrby & Steve Ditko have often pointed to their post-Marvel work as being inferior. I recall several people complaining to me about Kirby's scripting on The Eternals back when I ran an Eternals fan page. But heck, the Eternals, Devil Dinosaur, New Gods, the Question, the Creeper - those characters may not be as good as the 1960s Marvel super heroes, but they're a thousand times better than anything Stan Lee created after 1972.

It's a difficult thing to talk about, even now - the weird alchemy of time and place and of writer and artist (colorist too, for that matter); what makes a Stan Lee/Jack Kirby super-villain instantly memorable and a Stan Lee/Don Heck super-villain instantly forgettable?

Because Stan Lee was such a wonderfully friendly person and because journalists weren't usually educated on how the comics were made, it was difficult to discuss these matters throughout Stan's life. I recall being amazed at Jonathan Ross' documentary In Search of Steve Ditko because Ross actually tried to pin down Stan during an interview - it's the only time I've ever seen footage of Stan Lee with a camera on him and uncomfortable about it.

Some people try to turn these questions into "are you pro-Stan or anti-Kirby" etc. I have no interest in that. I definitely agree they did their best work together, and I likewise adore Lee/Ditko. (Lee/Romita, Lee/Maneely & Lee/Colan were pretty good too) But now that Stan has passed away and I've taken this off my chest, I don't think it will bother me too much... except for all the times in the future where I'll see the phrase "Marvel Universe credited by Stan Lee" and sigh a little. There are so many more creators to talk about. So many.